From Dinosaurs to Dinner
 and a “Drive In Movie”

by Keith Alan Deutsch

 

According to E.S.P.’s research, and we dug deep, Mackie’s World really is the first mall created exclusively for kids.  It seems like such a great and obvious idea, but nobody ever tried it before.  Deb and Pete Colvin explain their foray into developing a specialty project.

 A life-sized model of a Tyrannosaurus Rex dominates the front lobby at Mackie’s World.

 

Pete:   There was no turning back then.  And by the way, Mackie’s World has been granted a United States Trademark for “America’s First Mall for Children.”  We really are the first.

 

“Our whole concept is to provide an interactive educational and
retail experience, all together in a safe environment”

 

E.S.P.   Tell us something about the location.  The site had been a family department store, Herpolsheimer’s, that prospered in the 1940s, and then failed during the urban upheaval that hit most cities in the 1960s.  Then it was turned into a traditional shopping mall called City Centre in the 1980s.  That failed, too.  So Grand Rapids City officials felt they had a white elephant on their hands.  And they turned to you folks because of your experience in real estate, leasing, and rehabilitating older buildings?  Why do you think the traditional mall failed while Mackie’s World is such a success?

 

Deb:    It’s a wonderful location, but City Centre was a terrible idea for a downtown site.  It was a suburban-style mall with nothing to offer that was not already available outside of the center of the city.  There was no reason for people to come downtown to shop there.  In the 1940s, when it was a successful department store, every family shopped there together.  We kept the original monorail train that traveled around the ceiling.  People who come to Mackie’s Mall love to tell us that they remember riding it with their grandparents when they were kids. 

 

Pete:   The redevelopment of downtown Grand Rapids has been a great help to us, but I think City Centre would still have failed at the site.  People come from all over the world to visit Mackie’s World because we offer something unique. 

 

Deb:    That’s true.  We offer something different both in terms of shared experiences for children and adults and in the range of products for kids that our tenants merchandise in their stores.

 

E.S.P.   Let’s get back to the location. 

 

Pete:    Mackie’s Mall is in the exact center of Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Grand Rapids is a hot town with major and successful redevelopment going on.  The new Van Andel Arena is right across the street from us.  It’s the most profitable arena in the United States and draws lots of concert crowds. 

 

 

Even toddlers experience the fun at Mackie’s World

 

Deb:    And there is plenty of new parking for the arena.  Parking is important, especially in a downtown location.  Grand Rapids only has a population of about 200,000, but it is drawing plenty of tourists now.  And the municipality has made sure that there is inexpensive parking for the out-of-towners.  Plus there is a sky ramp from some of the new parking to the site.  Mackie’s Mall is surrounded by interesting destinations.  There’s the Grand Rapids Children’s Museum, the Gerald Ford Museum...

 

Pete:    And plenty of new and refurbished hotels, an explosion of restaurants, condos, apartments, art galleries, and many other new projects totaling over $250 million happening all within a short walking distance.  For more information, your readers can contact Barb Kravitz at the Convention & Visitors Bureau.

 

E.S.P.   Let’s talk about the physical site.

 

Pete:    There is a total of 70,000 sq. ft. of land on which an existing mall was built in the 1980s.  The building contains 360,000 sq. ft. spread over six levels.  The sublevel is a parking garage.  Basement through the fourth floor are visible to customers with a dinosaur jungle-themed atrium and skylights with stores facing the atrium in an oval.  Ground level is a food court, stage, birthday area, and family sports center.  Level one is retail and a movie theater.  Level two is retail, and level three is retail with a golf course and our Treehouse Restaurant, a 23,000-sq. ft. themed family restaurant. Level four is management and development offices... and expansion space.

 

 

Mackie’s World now draws visitors from around the world.

 

E.S.P.    That’s a lot of space.  That’s some undertaking.  How many tenants do you have?

 

Deb:    There are 40 storefronts in the mall.  At present we have 20 leased.  Pete handles the leasing. 

 

Pete:    Actually Deb plans and approves all the tenant locations.  We’re co-owners in Mackie’s Mall and just about everything is a shared Colvin family affair.  Leasing is handled on site.  Interested tenants should contact me, Pete Colvin.

 

E.S.P.   What kind of space is available for leasing?

 

Pete:    Stores range from 500 sq. ft. to 23,000 sq. ft. with an average of 2,500 sq. ft.  Because the previous mall stores offer nice fronts and generous finishes, conversion to new uses has been easy and cost-efficient.

 

Deb:    Even though we’ve only leased half of our 40 storefronts, Mackie’s Mall is actually much more than half full.  Pete and I control most of the non-retail space and we offer the whole family, including toddlers, lots of interesting non-aggressive activities.

 

E.S.P.    Before we move on from leasing, I have a few more questions about tenants.  If you are still only half leased, you must be choosy about tenants.  What do you look for?

 

Deb:   Our whole concept is to provide an interactive educational and retail experience all together in a safe environment.  This means we always look for one-of-a-kind tenants.  Our ideal retail tenant must give a lot of personal attention to the child customers because it is the total educational and entertainment experience along with a unique and interesting retail line that we hope to offer.  We currently have three or four such ideal retail stores. 

 

E.S.P.   Tell us about a few.

Deb:    We have a Collage Art Studio where the kids can work with textile art, learn about and play with a loom, and buy interesting loomed clothing.  At Jungle Jam, musical instruments and music from around the world are featured.  Classes and private lessons are available.  We think it is the world’s finest music store for kids.  I also like Little Feet, which is a unique retailer of quality shoes for children.  They carry Birkenstocks, Doc Martens and other hard-to-find brands in kid sizes.  Some of the shoes are amazingly cute in tiny sizes.

 

Pete:   Deb carefully chooses a mix of boutiques and youth-related value retail stores including music, art, clothing, shoes, plush teddy bear factory, candy, sports cards and memorabilia, golf, cookies, kids’ furniture, and much more.  Phase two of leasing is now beginning and will round out the mix.  Regional and out-of-town tenants who have come to Grand Rapids specifically to be in Mackie’s Mall make up 60 percent of our leases.  The other 40 percent are local tenants offering niche retailing of a specific type per our mix plan.

 

Deb:   Our goal is to bring families together to do things they can feel good about.  You can’t feel good about sticking a kid in front of a video machine while you go on shopping. We’re fun, but we’re not like a garish theme park.  

 

Pete:    We have created a comfortable place that is palatable to parents and where the whole family can shop for what they need or want with their kids.

 

E.S.P.    Tell us about the common area attractions and activities that you have developed and control.

 

Deb:    I’m a working mom.  I know time is critical.  People want to spend time as wisely as possible, particularly quality time with their children.  We’ve designed Mackie’s World as a place where families with kids of all ages can participate in fun and educational activities and also relax and be comfortable.   Kids Sport City is a 20,000-sq. ft. themed family sports center.  It includes a variety of different  mini sports-fields with realistic shapes and images.  Included are baseball, basketball, football, soccer, a safety driving course, hockey, and lots of other events all scaled for different age groups.  It is very popular.

 

 “I’m a working mom.  I know time is critical.

  People want to spend time as wisely as possible,

 particularly quality time with their children”

 

E.S.P.    What ages participate?

 

Deb:    Ages two and up.  We make sure to have activities for toddlers at Mackie’s World.  The little ones participate.  The Dove Drive-In Theater is very popular with the kids.  And it gives the adults a place to sit and relax.  It is a themed theater with toy cars as seats.  We feature Dove Foundation- approved movies with surround sound in a drive-in setting.  The Dove Foundation board of directors consists of Tom Landry, Joe Paterno, Dean Jones, Steve Allen and other Hollywood notables.  For two dollars the kids get to watch a non-violent movie, and they get a glass of juice and a bag of popcorn.

 

Pete:    And then there is our Treehouse Restaurant.  It is very popular and very successful.  It is a 23,000- sq. ft. themed restaurant with plywood walls and leaf-like ceilings.  It seats up to 500 people in casual eating arrangements.  It  is not only a place to eat.  It is a place to relax.  There are beanbag chairs and sofas that kids  can sleep on.  There is a children’s reading area with books and library tables. Ther are table  games and a living room area. Chalkboards are on the walls  for kids to draw and write on.  There is art on the walls and conversation nooks.  Kids can sit on the floor or eat with TV dinner trays if they want.  But it is also a full-service restaurant with great food.

 

E.S.P.   What did it cost you to turn the old white elephant into Mackie’s Mall?

 

Pete:   Approximately $6.3 million in renovation costs, including restaurant and tenant finish allowances.  A complete new HVAC heat pump system was installed, as well as updated electric, plumbing, fixtures, safety railings and kid-friendly finishes.  Based upon our safety concerns for the children, a large investment in color security cameras, monitoring, video surveillance, other safety issues, family-equipped restrooms, and ADA improvements were made.  Jack Freyling at Triangle Construction handled the renovation and safety issues.

 

“We started with a concept business plan.  We had no track record as
developers and our concept for an all-kids mall was entirely new.   We
had a Triple-A-rated placement offering of bond style notes on Wall
Street which raised $19.3 million in September of 1997"

 

E.S.P.    How did you manage the financing?

 

Deb:    We started with a concept business plan.  It was a difficult time.  We had no track record as developers and our concept for an all-kids mall was unheard of, an entirely new idea.   We needed Triple-A-ratings from Standard & Poors and from Moody.  Then we had a Triple-A-rated placement offering of bond-style notes on Wall Street, which raised $19.3 million in September of 1997.

 

E.S.P.    How long did the process take?

 

Pete:    It took four months from start to finish.  The offering sold immediately on the first day.  Seven point five fixed for 25 years.  Other details are confidential and non-Reg D.

 

E.S.P.    You also had ten investors, right?  I read that each of the ten contributed $50,000, and that one investor, Dixie Barnaby, said,  “I have seven grandchildren and I’m sure they’ll want their parents to come here every week.”  What can you tell us about the investors?

 

Deb:   A combination of companies and individuals, ten, were carefully chosen for their expertise in business, sports, entertainment, insurance, and financing--and for their belief in the Colvins and their plan for Mackie’s mall.  I don’t want to reveal more than that we had ten investors and that, no matter what may happen in the future, we never will give up more than half of the company.

 

Pete:   It was hard at the beginning.

 

Deb:    But now we have offers coming in to finance a rollout of the concept.

 

E.S.P.    What are your expansion plans?

 

Deb:    We have plans to build and operate no more than ten Mackie’s Worlds in the United States.  We are looking at larger, family-oriented markets.  We have discovered that 200,000 sq. ft. is the right target size for our concept.  We will never do another mall as large as our first Mackie’s World.

 

E.S.P.    What about tenants for the rollout?

 

Deb:    We expect to find something interesting and different in each city that is right for us.  We do not want a series of cookie-cutter shops in every mall.  There are chains that we feel are appropriate, and we have pending arrangements with these organizations--  letters of intent from good stores.  But they will only go into cities with at least a population of one million. 

 

E.S.P.   Can you point to some national chains that you like and that you feel would be appropriate in the new Mackie’s Worlds?

 

Deb:    I like some of the educational toy stores.  I like Zany Brainy.  I also like a clothing store from the Netherlands, Oillilly.

 

E.S.P.   So smaller sites in bigger cities is your rollout plan?

 

Deb:   Yes, that’s right.  We want city demographics where 25 percent of the population is under 12 years old with lots
of families.

 

E.S.P.    Who is your target audience?

 

Deb:    The whole family.  I believe that time is very precious to American families.  The whole goal of Mackie’s World is to make it easy for the family to shop and play together, to relax and enjoy time together.  People just haven’t got the time.  That’s why we encourage only kids 12 and under to come to the mall.  And we want them to be accompanied by adults.  The law won’t let us restrict access.  But we are designed so there is lots to do for all kids from 12 years of age on down to toddlers.

 

E.S.P.    I understand that, in addition to the Dove Foundation, Coca-Cola and Gerber are sponsors.

 

Deb:    That’s right.  We don’t accept any charity funds.   Coke has “pouring rights” and pays to put its name on the project.  So does Gerber.  They also donate baby food and juice.  Peg Perego, the stroller company, donated the toy cars for the drive-in movie.  We are looking for more sponsors.

 

“We have plans to build and operate  ten Mackie’s Worlds in the United
States.  We are looking at larger,
family-oriented markets.  We have discovered that 200,000 sq. ft. is
the right target size for our concept”

 

E.S.P.   I know that right from the beginning you have been contacted by major developers for advice and counsel.  Have you gotten involved in any of these outside projects?

 

Pete:   At first we just didn’t have the time or the inclination.  We kept on getting a lot of queries, however, particularly from foreign companies.  Now we are providing detailed fee consulting to overseas developers who wish to enter this market.  We are involved in several of these projects.  We help with concepts, strategies, tenant mix, design, financing, management, and all other areas of children’s mall development through our consulting firm, Kidzmall Development. 

 

E.S.P.   Thanks so much for the interview.  It is a wonderful story.  Our readers will also appreciate all the information the Colvin family shared with us.

 

Deb Colvin is 38 and was born in Vincennes, IN.  She is a graduate of Davenport College and talented in art, music, design, retail management, real estate, business, and raising children.  Pete Colvin is 40 and was raised in Chicago and Grand Rapids.  He is a graduate of Aquinas College and is talented in real estate, music, entertainment, sports, financing and business.  And he really enjoys raising his two sons, Chris and Cody.  Chris Colvin is 13 years old and helped a lot with the creation of Mackie’s World.  He loves sports, skateboarding, music and art.  Cody Colvin is 3.  He is a dinosaur expert and loves music.

 Contact information

Leasing at Mackie’s World: Pete Colvin at 616-458-9714, ext. 23.

Consultation with Kidzmall Development:  Pete Colvin at 616-458-9714, ext. 23.

Renovation and safety information: Jack Freyling at Triangle Construction, 616-361-7303.

Sculpted theme environments: Rick Spears in Athens, Georgia at 706-208-8834.

Grand Rapids Development: Barb Kravitz, Convention & Visitors Bureau, 616-459-8287.